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Lots of thoughts swirling around... - Random babblings of a fiber-obsessed nutcase

About Lots of thoughts swirling around...

Previous Entry Lots of thoughts swirling around... Sep. 30th, 2013 @ 11:27 am Next Entry
about where we are prophetically. I've had this post brewing for quite some time now, but just...it's hard to put this in words, because I feel that I must choose my words carefully to not "rock the boat"....but I feel that this HAS to be said. So. :deep breath:

I've had a hard time with the whole Rapture-as-the-church-teaches-it thing (hereafter referred to simply as "the Rapture"). I wasn't brought up with the idea, and frankly I have a hard time with it. YES, God can do anything - that's not the issue. It's just....I don't "get" it. Never had - I've tried, I've asked for belief....but there's always been doubt there.

A few years ago, I did some research...the early Church did NOT believe in the Rapture. From everything I can find, it was first proposed by the Mathers in the 17th century. Edward Irving fleshed it out more - and he's the one who came up with Christ coming back twice - the first to secretly remove Believers, the 2nd to kick butt. But....that's not what John says in Revelation (more later).

Anyway. I tried to believe, but......it's hard. A few years ago, I read one of Anna's posts (I can't remember which one...I thought it was on Mel Gibson's "Passion", but couldn't find the quote there when I looked again), and something she said there has stuck with me: "Popular stuff is NOT of God" (paraphrased)...and.....um. Rapture-based books have sold in the Hundreds of Millons. Dr. LaHaye has made a mint on his "Left Behind" books, and his "Are We Living in the End Times?".....and the "Left Behind" movie (not sure of the sequel) did really well, from what I can tell. Popular? Yup.

So. That's the background. On Yom Kippur this year, I was directed to read in Revelation. I ended up in Rev. 19.....here, let me quote:

"9 The angel said to me, “Write: ‘How blessed are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb!’” Then he added, “These are God’s very words.” 10 I fell at his feet to worship him; but he said, “Don’t do that! I’m only a fellow-servant with you and your brothers who have the testimony of Yeshua. Worship God! For the testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of prophecy.”

11 Next I saw heaven opened, and there before me was a white horse. Sitting on it was the one called Faithful and True, and it is in righteousness that he passes judgment and goes to battle. 12 His eyes were like a fiery flame, and on his head were many royal crowns. And he had a name written which no one knew but himself. 13 He was wearing a robe that had been soaked in blood, and the name by which he is called is, “THE WORD OF GOD.” 14 The armies of heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 And out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down nations — “He will rule them with a staff of iron.”[b] It is he who treads the winepress from which flows the wine of the furious rage of Adonai, God of heaven’s armies. 16 And on his robe and on his thigh he has a name written:

KING OF KINGS

AND

LORD OF LORDS."


And Rev. 20:

"4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them received authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for testifying about Yeshua and proclaiming the Word of God, also those who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years."

(These are from the Complete Jewish Bible - but hey, let me snag the same verses from the KJV:(wink)

Rev. 19:

"7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords."


And Rev. 20:


"4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."


Happy? :lol:)

Rev. 19 is where Christ comes back - this is the first time that's mentioned. But hey, that's not the "big" thing in *my* mind - look at Rev. 20 - the FIRST RESURRECTION, when the dead in Christ are raised up (sounds like 1 Thess 4:16-17 to me!)

Now, I don't see a mention of *living* Believers here - but 1 Thess. says that the dead in Christ will rise first. John does mention living Believers in Revelation - he keeps telling them to hang on, and not lose faith, so.....if the Rapture is true, just WHO is he trying to encourage? People who come to believe after? Because...it doesn't make that clear.

No, I can't explain the vast multitude in Rev. 7. I always assumed (I know, I shouldn't assume! :grin:) that it was to show that ALL Believers were included, not just Jews - that Goyim *could* become part of God's chosen, by accepting that Yeshua was the Messiah. I also freely admit that I could be wrong - and that's OK with me if I am.

Also, if you keep going in Rev. 19 it mentions the Wedding Feast:

"7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
(KJV only this time :wink:)

So - even if the Rapture is true, the Wedding Feast can't happen before the wedding (because the Feast occurs AFTER the ceremony, to celebrate. NOT before......), so the thought that those Raptured are at the Wedding Feast while the rest of the Earth is undergoing the Trumpet and Bowl judgements just...doesn't work.

Now, I'm not saying I am 100% correct, and everybody else is wrong, because honestly? I may very well BE wrong. But....this makes sense to me, it fits the verses, and it explains why John keeps telling Believers to keep the faith. It doesn't rely on non-Biblical sources to confirm/explain it - which makes me very happy. (We're told to not mix the Holy with the profane....but sometimes we get sidetracked and do that very thing. I keep having to stop and re-align my thinking, because I got sucked into someone else's beliefs.....it's scary, how easy it is to do!)

I still hope for an "escape", but I'm not counting on it. God hasn't done that in the past...yes, He COULD do it now, but I don't think so. Just like Israel was there for the Plagues, I think we're here for the duration - just not touched/affected by what's coming. HOW that's going to work, I don't know - but then, I don't have to know, do I? God's in control, and I need to just trust Him. And I do.

I've got more...but this was the "important" stuff. The rest....I need to sit on. I can't tell if *I* want to post it, or if I *need* to post it. So, I'll sit on it. I'll know soon enough if I need to do anything. :lol:

This entry was originally posted at http://fiberaddict.dreamwidth.org/771344.html. Please comment there using OpenID.
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From:(Anonymous)
Date:October 9th, 2013 03:05 am (UTC)

Amillenialism

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There's another view called amillinialism that says we are living now in the time Christ is reigning on earth, Satan is bound and He reigns through His visible church here on earth.
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From:fiberaddict
Date:October 9th, 2013 10:44 am (UTC)

Re: Amillenialism

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Interesting - but not true. If Christ were here, we'd SEE Him, and the Adversary wouldn be chained - and, um...look around.
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