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Pondering Sunday's sermon...

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Previous Entry Pondering Sunday's sermon... Jun. 19th, 2007 @ 09:49 am Next Entry
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From:fiberaddict
Date:June 19th, 2007 05:28 pm (UTC)
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Oh - another thing (silly me, trying to comment and eat at the same time) - the Feasts are but shadows of things to come. Jesus fulfilled Passover with his Death, Unleavened bread with the 3 days in the grave, and Firstfruits with his Resurrection (still think the dates don't matter? :wink: These 3 Feasts are one right after another.) 50 days later, he fulfilled Shavout (you may know it as Pentecost) when he sent the Holy Spirit.

I have a theory that John the Baptist (who some think is Elijah re-born) was born on Passover (since you are supposed to set a place for him)....and that the 2 witnesses mentioned in Revelation will appear on Passover, as well.

Rosh Hashonnah is the next Feast due to be Fulfilled - I honestly believe that *we* will see it in our lifetimes. Especially if July 1 goes the way I think (and Biblical Astronomy thinks) it will. (Venus (Israel) and Jupiter (Satan/AntiChrist) are due to enter Taurus (I think....my mind just slipped) on July 1...and the EU is voting as to whether or not Solana will take control ON JULY 1)

There's been a LOT of signs in the heavens over the past few years...add in the fact that this is the 40th year since Israel became a nation.......
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From:fiberaddict
Date:June 19th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
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:sigh: Try again - *NOT* Jupiter, but *Saturn* - they will enter the sign of Leo (the King) - the last time this occured it was Venus and Jupiter (Christ)...and was around 2 or 3 BC. Gee, wonder what event happened *then*? :grin:
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From:itsjames2u
Date:June 19th, 2007 08:48 pm (UTC)
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Interesting, but which feast does Christ's birth fulfill?

I would argue that what you outlined with Passover, Unleavened bread and First Fruits is intriguing but not definitive. As for Pentecost, which literally means "50 days after," there are several episodes of Pentecosts throughout the Bible.

You're right that we celebrate Christmas in December because of the pagan celebration of Saturnalia. This time of year saw several major celebrations in the traditional religions of Europe, and the Roman Saturnalia was the biggest. Roman Christians used the opportunity to communicate their message and give people an alternative to the pagan celebrations. It wasn't meant to correspond to any calendar convergence in the Bible; it was just an early form of marketing! And it stuck.

In many ways, I can see this as a very Lutheran thing: We're stubborn! We've been celebrating Christ's birth at this date for who-knows-what reason... why change now?
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From:fiberaddict
Date:June 20th, 2007 12:24 am (UTC)
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I believe that His birth was on Succoth - but that wasn't the Fulfillment. The Fulfillment will occur when New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven and God lives among us again (Rev 21:10-14).

There's no *proof* that he was born on Succoth...but it fits the pattern - and God is a God of patterns. You can see this over and over and over again in Scripture, if you look. (And you don't have to twist things to make it "fit", either...)

As to the Passover/Unleavened Bread/Firstfruits...I give you Matt. 26:1-19, Luke 22:1-14, Mark 14:12-17. Remember, the Jewish day begins at sundown the night before. Passover occurs; the next day is the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (a 7 day festival, IIRC), the 2nd day of Unleavened Bread is the Feast of Firstfruits. Christ was cruicifed and died Right before sundown (which makes it Thursday as we figure it - Friday the way the Jews figure it), the nextywas a day of Preparation, as well as the actual "feast day" (which started the night before)..(Friday - still with me?) for the next day was a Sabbath (Saturday). So, they took him down (without breaking his legs - on the FIRST Passover, the Hebrews were ordered to sacrifice a lamb, and be sure NOT to break any of it's bones). He was in the tomb ON unleavened bread (which, because Leaven represents sin) and the Feast pictures the burial of Christ - but his body didn't rot, then he rose on Firstfruits, where the Best of the Best was to be offered as a SIN OFFERING to God. Thus, Christ fulfilled all 3 Feasts.

And, actually, the only TRUE Pentecost is in the NT - there are mentions of the Feast of Shavuot, which is ALWAYS celebrated 50 days after Firstfruits. The disciples were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Festival - and, well, you should know the rest. :wink:

As to the "Lutheran Thing" - I hear ya! When I first started actually studying the OT, I was shocked, and tried to justify our NOT doing the Feasts.....but I couldn't do it. Jesus himself celebrated ALL the feasts, as did the disciples AFTER his death. Paul tells us that we do NOT have to do what the world does - we just have to do what God tells us to do...and guess what? He TOLD us to celebrate the Feasts, and to keep his words (commonly translated as "commandments" - do you know what the 1st word is? It's NOT "I am the Lord your God...", it's "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the abode of slavery". The catholic church changed it in 400 AD when it was decided that to be Jewish was evil. Seriously.....)

Anyway, as to why change now? Simple - the Bible says (and I can't find the reference - arrrgh! That's what I get for having NOVA on in the background..) that those who keep HIS commandments will be His. NOT those that only "say the prayer" or "do good works" - we have to accept and trust Jesus, and keep the commandments God gave His people, and we will be saved. (I checked it in 3 or 4 different translations, too....I couldn't get out of it. :grin:) *IF* you accept Jesus as Messiah, and trust in God, then you become a spiritual Jew, "grafted into Abraham's seed", and, therefore, the Abrahamic and Moseaic covenants concern you, too. You don't have to worry about the added laws - only the ones laid out in the Bible.

Anyway - this is almost as long as my original post! :grin:
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